Washington Post: “I’m an Obama supporter. But Obamacare has hurt my family. Obamacare has been far more frustrating than I’d ever dreamed.”

The Washington Post recently wrote:

I’m an Obama supporter. But Obamacare has hurt my family.

Obamacare has been far more frustrating than I’d ever dreamed.

By Catherine Keefe

December 10, 2014

Obamacare brought us new health insurance options, but cost us our more affordable plans.

In November 2013, Jim learned his small-business policy would be canceled because it didn’t comply with the new mandate to cover pediatric dentistry and maternity care.

The individual plan I had with Blue Cross was canceled, too.

We learned patience, but we couldn’t keep our doctors.

We had applied online and sent copies of our passports to California Covered for verification, but we received no bill, no confirmation of our coverage, no insurance cards. Jim spent an hour and a half on hold once before getting disconnected. He tried again the next day, waiting another two hours before getting disconnected.

… the urologist wouldn’t accept our new Blue Shield plan – even though the Blue Shield website said he did.

We have no choice to opt out of the required pediatric dentistry or maternity coverage we’ll never use…

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December 12, 2014. Tags: , , , , . Health care, Politics.

31 Comments

  1. Eaglesglen replied:

    I understand it can take months to find a doctor. If I have the time to find the emails demonstrating that evidence I’ll post it.

  2. EDell replied:

    The irony about Obamacare that I really love when I read these kinds of stories, with a great deal of skepticism I might add, is that it’s a health care system originally design by Republicans in 1993 that they failed to push through, but which Romney used as the basis to create his own Romneycare while governor of Massachusetts a decade later. And because it’s a right wingnut-conceived program, it inevitably will be too frustrating for one to deal with and needlessly complex with its myriad of rules and regulations, which are meant to more benefit the insurance companies and drug makers than most of the people needing health care. Had Congress been of sound mind, they would’ve agreed to have gone along with what Obama really wanted, a plan modeled after Canada’s health care system, one that wouldn’t have cost anyone their arm and leg and one without any quibbling over “pre-existing conditions.” It’s also a system that costs Canadians about 40% less per capita to run than the US system and if you’re a natural born citizen, you’re automatically enrolled from cradle to grave – there’s no endless forms to fill out or math to figure out anything about anything. Even immigrants end up qualifying after a waiting period of a few months or so, depending on the province they’re in. You get a priceless health card you keep for life so that when you get sick you hand it to your doc or hospital, they punch it through, you get seen and treated, and then you go home healthy – with no bill in the mail and nobody wanting to take your home away from you as renumeration for services rendered. Should you need physiotherapy, it’s covered. So it’s all basically no mess, no fuss, brain-dead simple, and Canadians are generally healthier overall than Americans as a result because everyone is basically covered for pretty much all the same things, though some minor differences exist in different provinces. Are there exceptions to free-for-all care? Of course, but they’re largely restricted to experimental or unproven procedures, for which patients would bear either the full cost or a shared cost if the government agrees to that arrangement. But those are rare cases. In easily at least 95% of cases, everyone is covered and treated as necessary with no need to worry about expenses. People can even add on private insurance for additional coverage, and often that would be for what the system doesn’t include, like dental care, which is separate from it, and for more expensive drugs due to rare conditions, and also for any perks, such as a private hospital room. In fact, laws are in place that drug makers can’t gouge consumers, explaining why the same meds that are sold in both Canada and the US are so much cheaper in Canada. And there’s also none of this business about companies wanting to be exempt, for whatever reason, from footing their fair share into the health care system – everyone pays through taxes. It’s a much more affordable way of funding the system when everyone is in on it, no ifs, ands or buts about it, which again explains why the overall costs of running it are 40% cheaper than in the US. The US should’ve went for it when Obama wanted it, but no, that could never be. It wouldn’t have been insurance- and drug company-friendly. Oh, well. Then suffer and bitch till your dying day. Canadians, on the other hand, just got on with life.

    • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

      If the U.S. adopts the Canadian system of health care, where will Canadian politicians go when they get sick?

      When Robert Bourassa, the premier of Quebec, Canada, needed cancer treatment, he came to the United States and paid for his health care with his own money. Source: http://www.independent.org/publications/article.asp?id=1201

      And when Canadian Liberal MP Belinda Stronach needed cancer treatment, she also came to the United States and paid for her health care with her own money. Source: http://www.ctvnews.ca/stronach-went-to-u-s-for-cancer-treatment-report-1.256411

      And when Newfoundland and Labrador Premier Danny Williams needed heart surgery, he, too, came to the United States and paid for his health care with his own money. Source: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/heart-surgery-to-sideline-n-l-premier-for-weeks-1.869535

      • EDell replied:

        Let’s see now. The best you can do is cite 3 filthy rich people who can afford to have health care anywhere in the world? Where’s the common everyday Joe and Jane in that cite? I’ll tell you where: virtually nowhere. Why? Because it’s prohibitively expensive for most Canadians to seek care in the US when they don’t have to pay for it in Canada. And not only expensive for the cost of being treated in the US, but the expenses related to going there and staying there. What if you need to be treated but it doesn’t require hospitalization? You need money for a motel or hotel during the length of your stay. What if you don’t have private health insurance, which a lot of Canadians don’t because there is no need for it in most cases? Well, then you’d have to find one but inevitably will run into problems because of pre-existing conditions and other nasty little unapplicables. What if you can’t raise all the money you need for some rare procedure? Well, either you’re stuck with the Canadian system with a chance of living or you die waiting for enough cash to go to the US. What if complications ensue after the treatment and you’re back home when it happens? Well, Canada is under no obligation to treat you at no cost for mistakes done by American doctors, with whom consultations would be necessary to learn the scope of how the problem came about, so that’s another great financial risk factor for most Canadians to take. Only about 40,000 Canadians will seek care outside of Canada each year, out of 35 million people (do the math: that’s barely more than .001% of the population), and often for specific treatment unavailable in Canada, as was likely the case for each of your cites. Funny how all the thousands of other politicians in the country still stick around for Canada’s health care. Why wouldn’t they? Their taxes are paying for it. And again, Canadians are generally healthier, and live longer by 3 years, than Americans, so why would they risk that for American health care? Never argue with a Canadian about what you know nothing of when it comes to health care, except, of course, for what you select from your disinformation book of phony right wing sound bites and talking points.

      • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

        There is nothing “phony” about my claim that they came to the U.S. for health care.

        They didn’t do it because they wanted “specific treatment unavailable in Canada.” They did it because they wanted their treatment immediately, and did not want to be on Canada’s waiting list.

      • EDell replied:

        One excellent reason why Canadians en masse avoid US health care:

        SASKATOON — A Humboldt, Sasketchewan couple faces possible bankruptcy after Blue Cross refused to pay a $950,000 medical bill incurred when their daughter was born ahead of schedule while they were on vacation in Hawaii.

        Jennifer Huculak-Kimmel was six months pregnant when she travelled to Hawaii. Her water broke two days into the trip. She was taken to a hospital by air ambulance and spent six weeks there before their daughter, Reece, was born by emergency caesarean section on Dec. 10, 2013.

        Huculak-Kimmel had purchased Blue Cross travel insurance for the trip. She said she specifically asked about the pregnancy and got clearance from her doctor.

        “When a Blue Cross representative sits across a table from you and says, ‘Yes, you are covered,’ maybe their representatives should be more well-educated on what they’re selling,” she said.

        http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/11/19/million-dollar-baby-saskatchewan-couple-billed-950k-after-daughters-premature-arrival-during-hawaii-vacation/

        Had they stayed home, there would’ve been no $950,000 medical bill for them. And there’s no way that the same treatment the baby got would’ve cost the system even a tenth of that in Canada. That’s because the US system is geared for profit, Canada’s isn’t.

  3. hmichaelh replied:

    Reading your short story on Obongo and ObongoCare, I have to tell you a massive dose of schadenfreude just kicked in. If you support Ohbongo and his Administration with their policies of Health Insurance, then you get exactly that for which you voted. My only regret is, it is not painful and costly enough for you and those like you. My sympathies must go to those who opposed this major POS, and who have been forced into the horrors of socialized medical insurance. Just wait until these Liberals get us to the point of socialized medical care. We’re very close to that now, and I want you to know THAT is the goal of these Liberals. If you believe in Socialism as a good structure under which to live, then you are getting exactly what you deserve. Anyone who thinks a large, controlling, central government can efficiently do ANYTHING simply does not understand the inefficiencies of large institutions.

    Our history tells the story of the success of a Free Market Economy, and demonstrates both the good and the bad of this system. However, without question, the good far outweighs the bad. The quality of life in America under the Free Market expanded at a remarkable rate. The advances in technology, science, medicine, and business are unparalleled. Starting with FDR, through LBJ, Carter, Clinton, Bush and now the excessive Socialist, BHO, we have to declined to where it is today. And the future looks bleak .

    So, don’t just look at the problems you are experiencing with Health Insurance…..look at the other attributes of your life under Socialism. Look at your taxes. Look at welfare. Look at reduced paychecks. Look at reduced hours of work. Look at the paralyzing EPA regulations. Look at the flood of illegal aliens. Look at what excessive regulations are doing to business. Look at the loss of privacy. Look at the violence of the underclass. Look at our failing military, and the increased threat to our National Security. Look at the slavery of the inner-city.

    There is so much more that is failing all around you, but I know how directly Health Insurance failures affect you directly. So that is what you look at most carefully. And you know what? If you had looked at all these things much sooner, perhaps you could have been a part of not allowing it to occur. The past is simply prologue, and if you want a better future, you better re-asses your political values.

  4. Constitution Believer replied:

    I know where this guy is coming from, and boy do I feel sorry for him because it is going to get worst before it gets better.
    Last year being the good citizen that I am I was, shall we say for lack of a better word, “scared” into getting an Obamacare plan. I like a dumb ass listened to what that bastard said. After it being confirmed by a letter from my insurance company BC/BS I went to the Obamacare website registered and enrolled in their “bronze” plan. When the window popped up telling me what my deductible would be and my monthly payment based on the information I supplied, hell I should have lied about all of it I wonder how many others lied, I don’t remember the date I did it but it was just before halloween.
    For me alone my monthly payment was $492 with a deductible of $4500, trust me the money I had in the bank is almost gone because I had to withdraw every month to make up the premiums. For my wife he premiums are slightly different $468 same deductible.
    NOW the best part, after I got all that done and sent in the first month to some, I still believe it is a fly by night place, company I never heard of before, only to find out it is an HMO thing, that crazy son of a bitch Obama tells the nation YOU CAN KEEP YOUR OWN INSURANCE…I called my old company the one that I had been with since 1966 only to have them tell me sorry charlie no can do. Talk about being pissed.

  5. 5WarVeteran replied:

    If you ever wondered why there are so many VA stories you will learn soon enough. I waited 27 years for an operation for my broken neck. The wait rendered me a quadriplegic.
    Get used to it.

    • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

      I’m so sorry.

      • 5WarVeteran replied:

        Don’t be, I just need a lawyer with testicles.

      • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

        OK.

        I hope you find one.

    • hmichaelh replied:

      27 Years? Really? I think there must be more to this story than is presented here. I can’t imagine any thinking person waiting 27 years for treatment of a broken neck. Emergency Rooms at non-VA hospitals would have taken you immediately with such a condition. There has to be something missing in your comment.

      • 5WarVeteran replied:

        In 1987 at a Navy safety training course things went horribly wrong and my neck was broken. (We are talking military medical here) I was taken to the Navy Hospital and they did xrays. No MRI. Xrays do not show cartilage damage nor do they show fractures unless they are entirely obvious. The Docs said I was fine and sent me home even though I was in pain and my hands were numb. Over the next 9 years I had many back spasms difficult moving my bowels and loss of sensation in my extremities.
        Every time they gave me Motrin (the military miracle drug) and sent me home. It got so bad in 1994 (9 years later) I could no longer feel change in my pocket. Again I went to see the ships Doc and he took a needle and started poking and “mapped” the numbness. Finally he asked me “How numb are you?” I asked for the needle and pushed it through my right hand pulling it out the other side. He veritably shit himself and sent me to Portsmouth Naval Hospital.
        There they did an MRI for the first time and spent the next two years deciding to do nothing.
        In my 22nd year they forced me out and pit in my medical records “Fit for duty” even though I needed a cane to walk. The Navy did not want to be responsible for paying my disability.
        I went to the VA and within 60 days I was evaluated at 60% and a year later I was rated 240% Cumulative disability. (You can only be 100% for pay purposes but you can be catastrophically disabled as I am. The continuing nerve damage over the previous 9 years took it’s toll on my muscles and organs ant the degenerative disc disease continues.
        The VA put me in a wheel chair, I have had 3 since then. And they gave me plenty of drugs. The nerve damage continues the pain continues. In January of this year after not having slept more than 30 minutes in over 6 months they decided to do another MRI and the first question this civilian doctor asked was, “Tell me about this terrible accident you had.”
        That was when I learned that I had actually broken my neck in 1987. The degenerative disc disease continued the nerve damage. Today because the Navy and the VA put off the surgery 27 years I am a quadriplegic.
        In 2002 when I went in because I could no longer hold up a plate with 8 hot dogs on it my grip strength gone because of atrophy, instead of checking my records for the old MRI instead they did a spinal tap and diagnosed me with ALS, Lou Goherighs Disease. A 3 year death sentence. In 2005 they gave me end of life counseling at age 48. They asked if I felt I was a burden on my family and on the US Government.
        Here in 2014 I am still alive, so much for the quality of military diagnosis. In March the Medical University fused 4 vertebrae in my neck and within 3 days I no longer had pain on my right side.

        The left side is still bad and the excuse the doctor made is “We can only fuse 4 vertebrae.” So the damage continues on the left side. My left arm is one third smaller than my right arm.

        This is by no means the entire story.
        This is the medical care you can expect from the ACA.

        One does not choose to “Wait 27 years” I am talking the US NAVY and the VA. They tell you what you get and that is final. I went in hundreds of times and retired with a medical record that was over 5 inches thick. I have had 23 medical review boards. All but 1 increased the percentage after testing and verification. That one was completed a second time and they ruled in my favor.

        Now the VA is discussing another spinal fusion because of herniated discs the entire length of my spine.

        Anyone who says the military medical system is wonderful has never heard of the horrible mistakes and the guys who have had the wrong extremity amputated.

        The neck operation resulted in half my throat being paralyzed, Swallowing hamburger is like swallowing gravel. For 3 months I talked like a duck after the operation I am so glad that improved.

        I have almost no feeling in my hands and poor muscle control. I took 45 minutes to write this.

        Dan

      • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

        Wow!

  6. EDell replied:

    danfromsquirrelhill:

    There is nothing “phony” about my claim that they came to the U.S. for health care.

    They didn’t do it because they wanted “specific treatment unavailable in Canada.” They did it because they wanted their treatment immediately, and did not want to be on Canada’s waiting list.
    ——

    There is no waiting list for urgent or emergency treatment in Canada. The system is prioritized according to severity. If you come to a hospital with a cold, obviously you’ll be the last to be seen. If you come in with a life-threatening emergency, they take care of you right away. I’m sure the same thing happens in US hospitals, at least I would hope that the guy who gets shot gets treated first before the guy who came in with a cold before him. Those politicians went to the US because of the undisclosed nature of their conditions and because they were filthy rich enough to afford it. And the phoniness of your claim is in the sound bites and talking points of using the same articles that every right winger uses to make a phony case against “socialized medicine” while ignoring the fact that only .001% of Canadians ever use the US system each year for whatever reason they use it that would be at great financial risk for them to use it, if not health risk as well. A perfect case of that is that of a friend of mine who went down to Florida with his wife several years ago where he experienced an attack of kidney stones. He was rushed to the hospital where they wanted to operate on him. My friend’s wife, who is one smart cookie, was wise to what the hospital’s scam was, realizing full well that no surgery was needed. They kept him overnight nevertheless feeding him Aspirins and the next day they flew back home to Montreal, after which, still in excruciating pain, he went to see his own doctor, who took care of the problem by merely zapping it away with some kidney stone zapper machine. No surgery, no bill, problem solved. But the punch line is this: he still did get a bill – from the Florida hospital. For $16,000! Just for an overnight stay and a handful of Aspirins. He refused to pay it and had his private insurance deal with the mess. The outcome was that he didn’t pay a penny and the insurance company worked down the fee to a realistic level with the hospital. Your system, even under Obamacare, is profit-driven, which makes the health care you do get suspect for the most part and for most people. But if you can contribute handsomely to a hospital’s profits, then expect to be well treated.

    • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/26/international/americas/26canada.html?_r=0

      As Canada’s Slow-Motion Public Health System Falters, Private Medical Care Is Surging

      February 26, 2006

      VANCOUVER, British Columbia, Feb. 23 — The Cambie Surgery Center, Canada’s most prominent private hospital, may be considered a rogue enterprise.

      Accepting money from patients for operations they would otherwise receive free of charge in a public hospital is technically prohibited in this country, even in cases where patients would wait months or even years in discomfort before receiving treatment.

      The country’s publicly financed health insurance system — frequently described as the third rail of its political system and a core value of its national identity — is gradually breaking down. Private clinics are opening around the country by an estimated one a week

      Dr. Day, for instance, is planning to open more private hospitals, first in Toronto and Ottawa, then in Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton. Ontario provincial officials are already threatening stiff fines.

      “We’ve taken the position that the law is illegal,” Dr. Day, 59, says. “This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years.”

      Canada remains the only industrialized country that outlaws privately financed purchases of core medical services.

      But most Canadians agree that current wait times are not acceptable.

      Last December, provincial health ministers unveiled new targets for cutting wait times, including four weeks for radiation therapy for cancer patients beginning when doctors consider them ready for treatment and 26 weeks for hip replacements.

      • EDell replied:

        That’s B.C.’s problem. Each province has its own system based on the guidelines provided by the federal government. Some provinces are better at it, some aren’t, and some excel in more or particular areas while others excel in other and separate areas, but there aren’t any disaster signs pointing to anything because they all fall under the federal government guidelines which standardizes the minimum basic care required. But the fact of the matter is that overall, the Canadian system is better for Canadians as a whole. If things were that bad the way you right wingers always seem to paint it, everybody in Canada would be dead by now, but we’re generally healthier you are – it also helps to have half the rate of obese people as you do, 17.7% for us vs. 33.5% for you.

        http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/topics/health/

        And why are we No. 4 on that list and you’re only at No. 10 once everything is factored inl?

        Another fact of the matter is that whatever problems there are with the system, different ones in different provinces, 9 out of the Canadians still wouldn’t give it up for anything, and certainly wouldn’t embrace the American style of health care, which is intensely viewed as verboten for us unless absolutely life-saving necessary.

        This may be a Gallup poll from 2003, but it’s unlikely that much has changed for the US in the last decade, even under Obamacare, which one would think from right wingers is a lot worse than what Americans had in 2003. You better hope for your sake that it isn’t, because it wasn’t that great under Bushcare.

        Very or Somewhat Dissatisfied with Health Care:

        US: 72% (44% Very)
        UK: 52% (25% Very)
        Canada: 41% (17% Very)

        Very or Somewhat Satisfied with Health Care:

        US: 25% (6% Very)
        UK: 43% (7% Very)
        Canada: 57% (16% Very)

        What’s wrong with you people and your “best health care system in the world” and why does our crummy “socialist” medicine outperform you in customer satisfaction?

        http://www.gallup.com/poll/8056/healthcare-system-ratings-us-great-britain-canada.aspx

        MYTH: Private, for-profit health care is more cost-effective and efficient than public services.

        TRUTH: Public health care, through a single-payer system like Canada’s, is the most cost effective and efficient way to deliver health care services to everyone. After 30 years of single-payer administration, Canada now spends almost 50% less than what the U.S. spends while providing equal or better care.

        The United States spends 31% of its health care dollars on administration, while Canada spends only 17%.

        Private insurers in the United States have overhead costs of about 11.7%. Provincial health plans in Canada have administration costs of around 1.3%.

        Private health care, which includes profit for companies and individuals, results in greater costs than public care. For example, cataract surgery in the private sector in Canada costs $1,000 – in a public hospital it costs $450. Costs for hospitals and doctors in Canada’s public system have remained stable or decreased from 1975 to 2005. Costs in the private health sector have risen at significantly higher rates, especially pharmaceuticals.

        http://medicare.ca/main/the-facts/the-myth-of-the-european-model

        You can’t win this one, because you’re not Canadian, which renders you utterly clueless as to how our system works, so instead you rely on your fear-based disinformation sources from fear-driving right wingers who, inexplicably, are more interested in protecting a monetarily corrupt private system than ensuring that everyone gets cradle to grave care without suffering major consequences like going bankrupt and/or losing a home. It’s hysterical that right wingers scream about cutting expenses and yet they seek to preserve one of the worst abusers of overbloated expenses – the private health insurance companies.

      • danfromsquirrelhill replied:

        The New York Times is not a “right wing” source.

      • 5WarVeteran replied:

        ROTFLMAO! Why are you so quick to “attack”? I speak with family and friends every day and they are Canadians. Most are disenchanted with the Canadian health system. Mainly because they cannot be seen right away and most often because the system does not serve to fix the situation only to medicate it.
        One friend actually drives down to Chicago for needed medical care, paying the excessive costs just to be seen.
        I appreciate your opinion but like most American sheeple quoting government supplied statistics, they only serve the sheeple and do not necessarily represent the actual facts but are government “algebra” for government serving statistics.
        I have family in Vancouver and friends in Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario. We all realize that government serves itself, always has. Personal experience preempts government statistics.

  7. EDell replied:

    5WarVeteran uses the old right wing back-up lie:

    “I speak with family and friends every day and they are Canadians. Most are disenchanted with the Canadian health system.”

    You have no family and friends who are Canadian, and what you’ve explained as “disenchantment” proves it. So you mean to tell me that someone would pay a thousand dollars or more to drive down from Canada to Chicago to be seen by a doctor “right away” just to avoid the wait time in Canada? What’s a typical wait time to see a doctor in Canada? 1-2 hours in an urban city, less than 30 minutes if you’re savvy enough to know which hours are best to check in with him, which is probably not that much different in most places in the US. How long is the drive to Chicago? From, say, Winnipeg (closest Canadian city in Manitoba, where one of your “friends” lives) to Chicago, it’s about 860 miles. It would take a full day’s driving of about 12 hours, non-stop at 70 miles per hour, and then an overnight stay at a motel or hotel before seeing the doc in Chicago the next day. Yeah, brilliant. One or two hours wait at free cost in Canada versus a full day’s wait at a cost of $1,000 in the US. If he had a serious condition that needed immediate treatment, he’d probably arrive in Chicago dead in the extra wasted time he had to spend getting there instead of just “toughing it out” for an hour or two at his own doc’s office in Winnipeg. Yeah, you make a lot of real sense to Canadians – and that’s why you have no Canadian friends and family..

    • 5WarVeteran replied:

      REally? That is all you got? Making shit up? Really? If I thought you comments were worth a shit I would provide names and phone numbers of my Canadian “friends”. I would provide the names of my family in Vancouver. But I will let you contact all the Smiths in the region if you think you are worthy enough to prove me wrong.
      What a twat. Just because you cannot afford the trip does not mean that others cannot or choose not to.

      http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/11/report-thousands-fled-canada-for-health-care-in-2011/

      http://www.denverpost.com/recommended/ci_12523427

      http://www.marketwatch.com/story/myths-about-canada-us-health-care-debunked-2012-08-09

      What next? Should I expect you to start telling everyone I was not in the military? Or that “He does not talk like the veterans I have known?”

      Yob,

      • EDell replied:

        All those cites are your usual typical American disinformation propaganda that dismisses the fact that only .001% of Canadians even use the US system. Gee, there must be a damned good reason why the rate is so invisibly low. But go ahead. I’ll take those phone numbers of your “friends” and I’ll call each one up personally. And why should I “afford” a trip to the US for health care that’ll only backfire on me, anyway? You think I’m going to waste my time going back and forth for follow-ups with the same doc in the US? I’ve lived in Canada my whole life and have yet to experience one medical horror story personally. In fact, none of my “friends” have either. Did you read the Florida story in an earlier post of mine? No? Go ahead, read it. Happened to a “friend” of mine, so see how that got easily resolved in Canada after his nearly experiencing a US medical nightmare. And I don’t really care if you were in the military or not, that hasn’t been any kind of badge of honor for anybody since WW II, a real war for a real cause. If you were part of that war, which is unlikely, then I salute you. But it still doesn’t mean you know diddley-squat about how the Canadian health care system is run and why it beats your system any day in terms of serving everyone from cradle to grave without making them go broke or homeless in the process. As for waiting times, US waiting times aren’t that much better and judging yours against ours is like comparing apples and oranges – yours is a private system, meaning those who can’t afford it, can’t use it, unless the government ends up paying for it (hey, that sounds like the Canadian system!), explaining why the wait times might be a little less; ours is public, meaning everyone gets to use it, fees are not an issue, so obviously more people who normally would suffer under your system would actually get to be seen under ours. So you decide which is better: being able to use health care only when you can afford it, or being able to use it when you need it without worrying about cost? Hopefully you won’t come up with a dumb answer.

      • 5WarVeteran replied:

        Too bad you wasted all that time typing I do not waste my time with ignorant trolls . . .

  8. EDell replied:

    danfromsquirrelhill umbled incoherently:

    The New York Times is not a “right wing” source.

    It doesn’t matter if it’s a right wing or a non-right wing source. Americans, in general, are plain dumb about what constitutes a single payer system. A lot of Democrats in Congress were dead set against it when Obama originally proposed a more Canadian style health care system, which is why he had to shift gears and adopted a more Republican version of it. Just check out how similar the two plans are and also how much more different John Boehner’s plan was versus the similarities between Obama’s and the Republicans’ own 1993 proposed plan:

    http://kaiserhealthnews.org/022310-bill-comparison/

    Nothing Canadian about any of them at all. Which explains why our expenses are about 11% of GDP and yours is 17% of GDP, and we cover everyone, while you’ve still got 40 million uninsured, which is 5 million more than there are Canadians. You people really struggle with basic math, don’t you?

  9. EDell replied:

    5WarVeteran replied:

    Too bad you wasted all that time typing I do not waste my time with ignorant trolls . . .

    ——

    The ignorance is all yours.

  10. hmichaelh replied:

    EDell and 5WarVeteran have gotten caught up in an exchange of personal experiences and counter claims. I’m willing to accept what each of them has to say about their experiences with health care. But the issue here really is health care INSURANCE…….not health CARE. The consequences of each of their insurance experiences have brought about the changes in CARE to which everyone is now subjected. Under socialized medical insurance, clearly there has been a degradation in care. Doctors, nurses and technicians are reimbursed at an ever declining rate. Research and development of new medical devices and medicines are in rapid decline in the USA. I’m not sure what the impact of socialized insurance, and taxation to pay for it, has been on Canada’s research and development of medical devices and medicine, but in the USA there has been a clear decline due to ObongoCare.

    You will remember, the USA Supreme Court ruled OhbongoCare is a TAX on the American people, and this tax has had a direct affect on research and development. Actual insurance to pay for care is an absolute disaster. Monthly premiums and horrendous deductibles are having a devastating affect on families with chronically ill members. Those of us who are healthy have yet to experience the unbelievable costs one must pay initially to meet deductibles, but the monthly premiums are back-breakingly expensive for the well and ill. Canadians, I believe, have a single payer (the Government) plan which is funded by taxes. It would be interesting to hear from Canadians what is the average tax on a family of four who earn $50,000 a year. It is difficult to identify in the tax scheme how much they are paying for health insurance I would bet, but I would like to hear at the end of each year what is paid in taxes to the government by Canadians.

    And then there is the issue of how many people are actually NOT insured now that we have OhbongoCare? One of the selling points for OhbongoCare was it would, at last, cover EVERYONE. Out of a population of 330 Million people, I think roughly 40 Million were not covered by insurance. Now we have this monstrosity, and it turns out probably more people do not have health insurance than did before it was enacted. The Ohbongo Administration holds data very close, so it’s difficult to know exactly what the statistics are on this matter. However, according to the United States Census Bureau, in 2012 there were 48.0 million people in the US (15.4% of the population) who were without health insurance. The Democrats in Congress and the White House have created a monster to solve a problem which has NOT been solved, has it?

    (I have to comment here, while those 40 Million people were not paying for health insurance, it does not mean they were not treated for illness and emergency care if they wanted to be treated. The welfare system of medical coverage provided free health care for these conditions, and it was actually paid for by those of us who had health insurance or paid Federal Income Tax. So no one in the USA was not provided health care treatment if they needed it. Granted, all the niceties of annual physicals, birth control, eye care, and many other routine health care services were not available to these people, but I don’t know many of them would use those services if they were available, given the huge deductible expense. Anyway, be aware of the difference between health care and health care insurance. The two are not the same.)

    So EDell and 5WarVeteran can continue to argue about Canadian health care, while the real issue in this thread is about OhbongoCare and what it is doing to the USA…..specifically the poor slub who supports Ohbongo, but now has regrets, because of his health care insurance.

    • 5WarVeteran replied:

      Well said!

      My point with the Canadian Healthcare troll is: I am tired of hearing one voice lie about how good their health care system is when I know many who say it is most definitely not.
      Obozocare will have even a worse reputation than the VA. It is a health insurance scam. For every single American who is taken care of properly there will be hundreds if not thousands who will not be taken care of properly. And we will all be made poorer because of it.

      Before Ocare an average of 280,000 people died each year because of medical mishaps. Another 800,000 are injured or maimed by medical care. That is a pitiful track record, but Ocare will be much worse.

      In 1997 the VA gave me “trigger point” pain injections twice,They never did a thing for the pain but they did destroy the muscle at L3/L4 and now I have a hole where muscle should be. Instead of addressing the actual problem of a slipped disc (1/2 inch to the right) they made me a paraplegic. That added to the neck damage they failed to address for 27 years I am now a quadriplegic. Now the VA is considering an anterior dissection and fusion of the lumbar. Which requires opening up the front and pulling out the organs and intestines to get at the spine. Then they will fuse 3 vertebrae with a titanium plate and if I survive I may be pain free in that region for the first time in 22 years . . .
      Unless they diagnose me with Lou Goherighs disease again . . .

  11. hmichaelh replied:

    EDell and 5WarVeteran have gotten caught up in an exchange of personal experiences and counter claims. I’m willing to accept what each of them has to say about their experiences with health care. But the issue here really is health care INSURANCE…….not health CARE. The consequences of each of their insurance experiences have brought about the changes in CARE to which everyone is now subjected. Under socialized medical insurance, clearly there has been a degradation in care. Doctors, nurses and technicians are reimbursed at an ever declining rate. Research and development of new medical devices and medicines are in rapid decline in the USA. I’m not sure what the impact of socialized insurance, and taxation to pay for it, has been on Canada’s research and development of medical devices and medicine, but in the USA there has been a clear decline due to ObongoCare.

    You will remember, the USA Supreme Court ruled OhbongoCare is a TAX on the American people, and this tax has had a direct effect on research and development. Actual insurance to pay for care is an absolute disaster. Monthly premiums and horrendous deductibles are having a devastating affect on families with chronically ill members. Those of us who are healthy have yet to experience the unbelievable costs one must pay initially to meet deductibles, but the monthly premiums are back-breakingly expensive for the well and ill. Canadians, I believe, have a single payer (the Government) plan which is funded by taxes. It would be interesting to hear from Canadians what is the average tax on a family of four who earn $50,000 a year. It is difficult to identify in the tax scheme how much they are paying for health insurance I would bet, but I would like to hear at the end of each year what is paid in taxes to the government by Canadians.

    And then there is the issue of how many people are actually NOT insured now that we have OhbongoCare? One of the selling points for OhbongoCare was it would, at last, cover EVERYONE. Out of a population of 330 Million people, I think roughly 40 Million were not covered by insurance. Now we have this monstrosity, and it turns out probably more people do not have health insurance than did before it was enacted. The Ohbongo Administration holds data very close, so it’s difficult to know exactly what the statistics are on this matter. However, according to the United States Census Bureau, in 2012 there were 48.0 million people in the US (15.4% of the population) who were without health insurance. The Democrats in Congress and the White House have created a monster to solve a problem which has NOT been solved, has it?

    (I have to comment here, while those 40 Million people were not paying for health insurance, it does not mean they were not treated for illness and emergency care if they wanted to be treated. The welfare system of medical coverage provided free health care for these conditions, and it was actually paid for by those of us who had health insurance or paid Federal Income Tax. So no one in the USA was not provided health care treatment if they needed it. Granted, all the niceties of annual physicals, birth control, eye care, and many other routine health care services were not available to these people, but I don’t know many of them would use those services if they were available, given the huge deductible expense. Anyway, be aware of the difference between health care and health care insurance. The two are not the same.)

    So EDell and 5WarVeteran can continue to argue about Canadian health care, while the real issue in this thread is about OhbongoCare and what it is doing to the USA…..specifically the poor slub who supports Ohbongo, but now has regrets, because of his health care insurance.

    • EDell replied:

      How much of our taxes is extracted for health care is fuzzy for Canadians, but:

      “for 2012, “the estimated average payment for public health care… ranges from $3,418 to $11,401” depending on your family income and status. Thus those in lower and higher income brackets may pay less or more than the average range. This range is still well below the American average, which is estimated at about $20,000 for an average family of four not including the very high deductibles in some policies.”

      http://www.carp.ca/2012/09/21/the-true-cost-of-healthcare/

      Now, is it an absolutely perfect system that Canadians have? Of course not. No system is. At least half-a-dozen European countries do better than we do. But overall it’s a much better system than the US’s in that it doesn’t bankrupt people nor exclude anyone from health care who needs it and is more efficient and less costly to run than the US system – even drug companies here are forced to keep their prices low, unlike in the US. As for the phony issue of wait times, a lot of factors go into determining that. You’re likely to wait interminable hours or days even, if you live in remote regions in the Canadian tundra, which would skew the average wait time negatively, but most people don’t live in the tundra. Half of Canadians live basically in seven cities. The other half live in much smaller cities of under 500,000 population, and towns and rural communities, where again wait times would skew the average negatively because fewer doctors and resources are available there, which isn’t that different in the US and all its small town and rural populations. Another factor is the number of doctors. As Baby Boomers rapidly increase in numbers, new doctors on the scene aren’t catching up. This is the same problem in the US and it’s not likely to get better in the next decade or two as boomers hit 65 at a rate of 10,000 per day. As for the quality of health care, well, all I can say is that we’re generally healthier than Americans are (only a third of us are obese compared to double that for Americans) and live longer too (by 2-3 years in expected longevity) and everyone gets to see a doctor when one is needed without having to agonize over costs that often might prevent one from going to see one. There’s no second thinking involved for Canadians in any decision to see a doctor. A number of studies have been conducted comparing the US with other industrial countries on overall health care performance and consistently the US lags behind that of Europe and Canada and Australia; for example, a 2000 WHO study found the US in 37th place. Surveys have also been conducted in the past that showed 9 out of 10 Canadians wouldn’t trade Canada’s health care system, warts and all, for any others, especially for one like the US has. It’s a system that’s become meshed in with our national identity that further sets us apart from being like Americans.

      As I’ve said before, the problem with Obamacare is not what it’s trying to do as much as it’s trying to do it the same old way but just a little bit differently. Obama wanted a Canadian style system because he could clearly see how much more cost-efficient it was while including every single person, but Congress, including a vocal group of Democrats, balked at that – it wasn’t too complicated enough and didn’t protect Corporate America’s interest as much is what they seemed to complain about. So he had to adopt a more Republican plan, based on an old failed 1993 proposed model, that was needlessly complicated and did protect Corporate America’s financial interest. Whether it’ll ultimately achieve any goal towards health care for all that would become more affordable and not be as much of a drain on GDP (easily 50% more now than that of Canada), only time will tell since it’s still going through its growing pains. Personally, I find it’s still a needlessly inefficient and a much too burdensome bureaucracy-laden system compared to how it’s done in Canada, where you qualify as soon as you’re born without having to fill any forms and figure out premiums and go through exchanges and choose a health insurance company and asses deductibles, and which is something that stays with you for the rest of your life, no mess, no fuss. But I guess Americans always like to learn things the hard way, so who am I to argue with that? I just know that there’s no way I’d want to live under a US health care system, even under Obamacare, compared to what I’ve had all my life. Why, that would be kind of … insane of me to do.

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